Garrett
Garrett is a 43 year old transman who began his transition in Florida in the late 90’s. He has lived all over the United States and has held all kinds of jobs in youth advocacy, health care and a few odd ones as well. Garrett has had many titles but the ones that have brought him the most joy in the current years have been friend, brother, and uncle to the vibrant and beautiful trans and queer community that he has built over time. He currently resides in Washington State with his wife and their three dogs.
S5E8 Garrett with ads
Jackal: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, welcome back to Stealth A Trans Masculine Podcast. I'm Jackal.
Kai: And I'm Kai. We're your hosts for the Transmasculine Podcast. Our show continues to focus on the stories of people who identify as transmasculine and who transitioned either socially or medically before or around the year 2000.
We will continue to make efforts to include stories from trans men of color and acknowledge the importance of representation from these voices.
Jackal: The name of our show highlights two important facts that one, for our generation, we were often told to hide our past and live an underground existence. And that due to that, Our stories are very often overlooked.
Kai: We want our audience to know that we ourselves are a part of this generation of trans masculine identified people, and that we value the experiences inside our trans masculine community. We want people to know that throughout our lives, each of us [00:01:00] has had to navigate issues of disclosure, which have impacted us in many ways.
Jackal: As humans, we are always changing and transitioning. As elder trans men, we assume many roles. We get married and divorced. We are caretakers, we are parents, we are professionals, academics, and advocates. We push for human rights and systemic change. We are exploring the various transitions that we undergo post transition.
Kai: If you're new to our show, welcome. And if you're a listener from a previous season, thank you for your continued support. You can find us on most social media platforms. These are trying times and we want to acknowledge that here in the States and throughout the world, there are groups trying to remove protections in place for our trans and non binary communities.
Safety is a real concern for us, particularly our trans and non binary BIPOC siblings. We offer links to health and safety resources on our website, transmasculinepodcast. com. Please hold each other dear and stay in touch with us.
Jackal: We invite our listeners to remember that we are a living [00:02:00] community. We are healthy.
We are contributing. We have experienced loss and success. We are loved and we welcome you to our stories. We want to give a content warning for this episode. There is talk about mental health issues.
Kai: Remember, you can go to our website, transmasculinepodcast. com for resources for crisis lines, including the Trevor Project, Trans Lifeline, and Suicide Prevention Lifeline.
Transmasculinepodcast. com.
Jackal: Kai,
Kai: Yes.
Jackal: he who shall not be named won the election, and probably there's people who are feeling pretty down about that, scared about that. How do you think we move forward? What do we do?
Kai: Wow. I think one of the things that has happened for me is, getting over the initial uncertainty and realizing that I live in a [00:03:00] bubble, that I'm very much out of touch with the popular vote, I just had a very hard time conceiving of a world in which people would vote for him,
Jackal: Me too
Kai: And that to me was the hardest thing for me to reconcile is like my own head in the sand.
Right? Am I feeling a lot of things? Yes. And what I really have decided for myself is, my first instinct was to schedule a dinner. And so we had a trans guy that we met at camp come down from Alaska, and we invited some other folks, and we had nine of us in the room. So it's bring it coming together, being visible, showing up, connecting with each other, being there for each other and just keeping it really simple.
I've gotten off social media for the large part. I check our Instagram. I'm not scanning the news. I'm not doom scrolling. I'm not clicking on, clickbait, things like that. Just trying to remember day by day today, I'm going to show up and how do I want to be in this world?
I'm going to surround myself with people that love me, I'm going to do the things that I [00:04:00] value, keep in alignment with my values, and I can't predict the future. How about you?
Jackal: One thing that I want to just back up a second because it reminds me a couple things. One is that I felt disappointed in the American people. It was a ridiculous comparison, but Mexico just elected their first female president. And I felt so discouraged because I thought, when the fuck will the U. S. get over their misogyny and sexism and elect a female president?
Kai: The racism too, right? With Kamala.
Jackal: and racism,
Kai: Yeah. Yeah.
Jackal: right? So that was one. I was just really disheartened, disappointed in the American people. The second thing was that there's nothing I can do about it. This is what happened.
Right. And so rather than be doom scrolling, as you call it, and [00:05:00] like all this what's going to happen in the future, I needed to shrink into my bubble a little bit and say to myself, I'm a good person. I'm not going to live in fear. I have power in my small little world.
And there are people in my world, undocumented students, Trans students, non binary students who are in a way more vulnerable position than I am that need support and need me to step up, right? And that's my commitment, right? The other thing that happened that you talking about being off of social media brings up for me is that Man, I don't even like to say his name.
Is that now Elon Musk is part of the cabinet or whatever, like this new government agency that they've created or there are going to be creating. And I'm sorry, man, Kai, I do not want our podcast to be on X or [00:06:00] Twitter or whatever it's going to be called next. I want us to delete that completely and not be on there.
And if there's a new one, there was a new one that got brought up. I saw it on the news, but we can talk about that later. If we're going to do that, we haven't been great on our social media anyways, but I don't want them tracking me. us at all. I don't want to support that billionaire aspect.
So there's things that I'm angry about, cause I feel angry just saying it. And there's things that I feel like, yeah, I'm maintaining my hope, my positivity. I'm not going to live in fear. I'm not going to live in that anger. I'm going to be there for I don't have as much community where I'm at as you do. So I might try to look for my own community, older people in that realm. I don't know how much luck I'll have But at least being there for other people is something I'm good at. And it's something that I want to be able to offer because [00:07:00] sometimes people don't even know they need something until it's offered. And then they're like, Oh yeah, let me go to that so that I can get the support that I didn't think I needed.
Kai: I do want to say something really hopeful. I just remember Tristan talking about political movements and the study of political movements and he forecast this. Right. And I remember thinking, Oh, wow, that's sounds like the worst kind of world to live in.
Jackal: Conspiracy theory stuff, yeah.
Kai: do you think they're going to stop here?
I remember one of the benefits of being an older person, right? We had a birthday just now. Yeah. We're old is that we have some context in that, we've been through election cycles where the quote unquote unthinkable has happened.
And I know this is different and I know the consequences are dire for our community potentially, right. But I think, We're going to get through this, that chaos that you're describing actually might work in our favor,
Jackal: at some point
Kai: Democrats get their shit together, hopefully, but just we're going to get through this.
Jackal: it's true, somebody actually called me yesterday and was asking for [00:08:00] advice, and asked me exactly what you're asking me, like, how do you feel? And I was like, you know what, We survived World War I. We survived World War II. We survived a civil war. We've, survived assassinations of presidents.
We've survived so much. We've survived the Hoover years. We've survived all these different things, right? We can survive a second term of Trump. We can. And we will, and we've been here forever and we will continue to be here. There's no way that they can, exterminate us.
So try not to live in fear and try not to doom scroll because that's not always healthy. Listen to more of our podcast and we'll be like shiny and hopeful for you. And
Kai: Stay in touch with us for
Jackal: Stay in touch with us because we need it as well. Like we need the love and support as well. And we'll be there for loving and supporting you in our community and our listeners and the people that we interview.
Kai: Thanks Jackal
Jackal: Yeah. I just feel grateful and I want us to [00:09:00] remember that gratitude exists and we are grateful for you.
Kai: Thank you everybody. Thanks. Jackal.
Hey, this is Sean Aaron, he, him, his. And I'm here to tell you about them boys podcast. I'm the host of them boys podcast. And as a black queer trans man, the podcast amplifies the voices of other trans men of color. As we share our transition stories, the podcast not only amplifies the voices of trans men of color, but it raises awareness and conversations around our lived experiences.
You can listen to the podcast by going to themboys. org forward slash podcast. That's D E M B O I S. org forward slash podcast. I hope to have you join us on the next [00:10:00] episode.
Adam: Today's interview is with Garrett. Garrett is a 43 year old trans man who began his transition in Florida in the late 90s. He has lived all over the United States and has held all kinds of jobs in youth advocacy, healthcare, and a few odd ones as well. Garrett has had many titles, but the ones that have brought him the most joy in recent years have been friend, brother, and uncle to the vibrant and beautiful trans and queer community that he has built over time.
He currently resides in Washington State with his wife and their three dogs. Garrett's trienniversary is 1999, the same as Zan, Rhodes, and Max, so go check out our website to see what momentous events happened in that year.
Jackal: Welcome back to stealth, a transmasculine podcast. We're here with Garrett. How are you doing today Garrett?
Garrett: I'm good. Thank you. How are y'all?
Jackal: Good. Thanks. So we don't know you personally. How did you come to be on our show? [00:11:00] Tell us your story.
Garrett: Well, I just sent an email to y'all because I really just appreciate what y'all have been doing. I think the stories of our people are just so important, especially even more so now. And I think gratitude is just one of those things that, especially in these times, I'm able to fall back on a little bit.
Jackal: That's awesome.
Kai: Yeah. So cool. Okay. Garrett. So thinking in the way back machine back in 1999 ish, how did you learn about trans masculine identities?
Garrett: Well, I was involved with the queer youth organization at the time that was in Florida, known as Jasmine, which is the Jacksonville area, sexual minority youth network, and they were a really great and amazing and supportive organization. I had been going there since I was about probably 16 and they'd had a couple nights where they had hosted the local trans women organization to come and talk to the young people And it was always funny because they would stare at me and they're like, they're also trans men They shave their faces. They do these things and I was always like, why are they telling me this? How does this apply to me? But [00:12:00] Jasmine was a part of this really amazing collaborative network of youth organizations called NYAC which was the National Youth Advocacy Coalition. And I finally got to go to one of the really big events that they had in DC.
And I remember walking into this hotel lobby, just full of feral queer youth. It's the best way to describe it. And this young person walked up to me and he's Have you seen my friend? And No, I have not seen your friend. And then finally, I realized that these two people had connected. And I was like that's that person's friend.
And he had these little chin hairs. He had just started his transition. And I was like, that what those women meant, you can do that. Oh my gosh. And it was just like this lightning bolt moment of everything finally falling together, where I was like, Oh but really prior to that I don't think I'd ever really heard much about transmasculine identities out really side of the Robert Eads documentary
Jackal: Southern comfort.
Garrett: [00:13:00] yeah, exactly.
Which I think for a lot of us, Probably was a very scary feeling, especially with around the ideas of accessing health care. And then I think also was Brandon Teena's story as well which
Jackal: Another scary story.
Garrett: Yeah, so I figured this out, but now I'm like, oh, okay, now what do we do?
Kai: And you're right, I think those particular stories were extremely frightening and I'm so grateful we have this show that highlights. How we persist and live. We're all here and we have full, wonderful lives. And so tell us what happened next, Garrett
Garrett: so I thankfully had very supportive parents. I go home and I'm telling my mother about, this experience. And she already knew that I was queer identified at the time. And I remember sitting down and I'm just sitting there eating dinner. And she's so do you think you're one of these trans men?
And I was just like, what? Oh my gosh, how do I have this next conversation of, yes, I am, but I don't have this language yet to really talk about this. [00:14:00] So it was a little complex for a little while because I knew how I identified. I knew that there were other people out there like me.
So I, like many people in the late 90s, headed to the world wide web.
Was able to just realistically pour over so much information as much as I could. I think like a lot of us, I devoured any bit of information out there that I could. And a lot of it was a little bit harder to digest, I think, because I was this little punk kid.
I knew I didn't want to fall into this you should get a brown belt and a black belt, and you should have a suit, and you should do this, and this, and I was like, but that's not me. It was a really tough time too, because especially back in Florida, there really was no one.
There was myself, and it was very lonely for a very long time. I was pretty lucky though, because I was going off to college that next year, and I knew that I was going to have a chance to almost [00:15:00] reinvent myself, per se. And I really took that as an opportunity to be able to do that.
And I knew that I was going to college in Tampa versus in Jacksonville, which was a little bit more progressive and a little bit more open minded. And I was pretty lucky about that. But my ballsy little self knew that I couldn't really hide this for very long. Jasmine was very well known for having panels, which they would have a lot of people in the community come and gather.
And all of these queer young people would come and tell their stories. And I think it's Amanda Beers is the name. She played Marcy on Married with Children. She's been pretty well known in like theater and acting and a lot of like writing. And she came to basically be the person to get all these people to come for this fundraiser.
So all of these young queer kids could come tell their stories. And I chose that moment to be like, and I'm trans and this is what my life is going to be like. And I'm going to take hormones and I'm going to have surgery. And I remember my friends being so proud of me that day, because really [00:16:00] awesome chance to come out to the community and I think a lot of the elders in our community were like a little bit taken aback
Kai: Wow. You're a teenager, and you're about to go away to college. I was 30 when I met my first trans guy. I just remember being so excited and scared because I thought I couldn't ever really live up to that or pass and I just remember being so afraid. I think your ballsy little self is a good way to put it. You just drop that at a panel.
Garrett: Yeah, and I think especially in this current climate that I really have been leaning to and really falling back on and remembering. It's hey, remember what you did at 18? Let's not forget that at 43 right now. I was also exceptionally lucky because then there was an amazing conference afterward where a lot of fairly famous trans people were coming and gathering too. So I got to go to that and meet people like Lauren Cameron and Jameson Green and was blown away by that.
Jackal: so you said your friends were very proud of you and then the elders were somewhat taken aback. Were there any [00:17:00] trans people in those groups, did you have trans friends? Who were your friends? Were they lesbian identified and supportive of you? And the elders what was that demographic group? Because in my experience coming out of the lesbian community, it was hard, right? My peers, there weren't a lot of elders to be taken aback. They were all my peers at that time. Cause like Kai, I came out at 30 ish and it rocked the lesbian world at this time . What was your experience like?
Garrett: My friends were a lot of other queer identified young people they were very progressive too in a lot of ways. A lot of them were reading books by Kate Bornstein, and were those really progressive young queer people, and some of the elders were a lot of the lesbians who, I think it was tough because a lot of them were very butch identified, and I think it was that whole idea of loss of community, and because here's this young person wanting to be essentially a [00:18:00] man, and not essentially a man, I wanted to be a man and I think a lot of us still have to settle with some of that self hate in becoming a man.
And so I think some of the older and some of the elder people in the community thought that it was a phase. They're like, oh, we all wanted to be boys when we were kids. You're just doing this later on and you're 18. Why do you want to do all these things? I remember even some of the older people who I would hang out with telling me that, Oh, they thought trans men were just lesbians who couldn't handle being lesbians. So it was a mixed bag in some regards, but the people who I was pretty close to were just like, We support you, we love you. This makes sense.
Kai: When I came out as a dyke in the 80s, I remember living through a time when it was very separatist, there was a lot of anti man sentiment out there. And it was very androgynous, it was actually like, anti butch femme at the time, in the mid 90s, early 90s, and not very kink friendly at the time, and so those folks were outliers in the Seattle Dyke community, but you were so much younger. What was it like for you?
Garrett: Absolutely. One of those messages, when I was younger that I [00:19:00] was just like super butch, but no one could really understand that quite yet. And they were just like why must you do this and such? And I was just, this is just me.
This is just who I am. Not why must I, it's just, I can't be any other way.
Kai: Thank you. Okay, so you mentioned, you're not going to wear a black belt or a brown belt, so what were some of the things that you were told either by, I heard you say that, you're just maybe a confused young dyke who doesn't know that they're butch, but when you met trans folks or other people or as you came out a little bit more disclosed, what were some of the things that you were told about how you should live your life as a trans man?
Garrett: That whole idea of you're gonna have to move away and reinvent yourself, and no one's going to be able to really accept this part of you, and I really wish I hadn't listened to that narrative as much, because it really made me have a hard time talking to my family, especially, about my transition and it's something that we've never really talked much in depth about. I did it and it was like, okay, cool.
You're happy now we can move forward. So [00:20:00] I think that's one of the things that I really wish I hadn't listened to that there are the people who are closest to you are not going to be able to accept this. You're going to have to find new people in your life.
Kai: What were some of the conversations that, if you were able to, you would have liked to have back then with your family?
Garrett: I think I would have liked to talk to my dad more about what it means to be a man. Because my dad is actually a really great example of being a very gentle man and being a very kind man in this world. And he is Just a great human being and I really wish that I had more of that when I was younger And I think a lot less of that posturing idea of this is how you have to be a man And this is how I must present myself and he doesn't really do that and looking back I could even see that he has always just been People can get angry at you for whatever reason they want to. That's their problem, not your behavior. And that probably would have saved me a lot of time and energy and anger in my youth.
Kai: Thank you.
Jackal: How do you think [00:21:00] your social standings like race, class? Young, impacted your ability to transition your desire to transition your fears about transitioning.
Garrett: I've been very lucky. My parents had insurance that worked fairly well. And they had some money and I, white man, I've been very lucky also in my transition that I'm one of, I think the joke is that all trans people are five, seven. I break that barrier. I'm actually 5'10. That whole idea of passing is something that came very quickly in my transition and I was able to very much present as male, even without access to hormones for a very long time. I worked at a grocery store Even before I had figured quite everything out.
And this woman in the bakery was convinced that I was a boy. And I remember my mom picked me up one day. She was like, I'm here to get my daughter. And she was like, I don't know who you're talking about. This boy over here is your son. Go take him home. And
Kai: what was that like for you?
Garrett: Oh I loved it. I loved [00:22:00] that. I worked at this grocery store and I was a little bad boy and so many people were just so confused by me. And I just let them call me, son, boy, whatever, and I was going by a very abbreviated version of my dead name that was very gender neutral. So I feel like it worked really well, and I didn't even have everything quite figured out yet, but it was Very much a wonderful little place where I could just put my little hat on and put my apron on and be like, I'm here to bag your groceries, ma'am!
Let's go, I'll take them out to your car!
Jackal: It brings me to the next question actually, which is, our show is called stealth. It's a very loaded word in our community, but what does stealth mean to you?
Garrett: Stealth for me means a lower, non disclosing life. I think some people fault some people for living a stealth life, but having lived in areas of the world where safety is a big concern, there have been definitely times in my life when I've been stealth, or very [00:23:00] low disclosing, I would say. I've lived in the South, I've lived in the Midwest I think I'm probably in a point in my life where I'm not stealth for probably one of the first times in my life in a very long time. And that is a very new and very quite freeing thing as well.
Jackal: What has that meant for you? In your soul in that shift in freedom. How did it shift for you? Why did it shift for you?
Garrett: When I worked in Florida I was able to work for the youth organization that saved my life.
Like I was able to help them start a clinic and really start some of their programming to get hormone access for young people. And so I was very out at that time and having to constantly. tell, my story and having to constantly be that affirming adult for young people, which I was very happy to do at the time. Because I was so newly. In [00:24:00] my transition and only so many years in my transition, and I had to be so loud and vocal previously about it that it just came naturally.
And then it got to be a lot because I became like that token trans person amongst the community and that token trans man. And having to be constantly asked to be in so many panels and so many speaking positions, and I just got so tired of it. Because. I just wanted to live my life for a little while and not be known as the trans man.
And so I ended up getting together with a partner and ended up moving to Minneapolis for a little while and for the first time actually had a small trans community. And I was like, oh my gosh, there are other trans men. This is wonderful. I finally don't have to be the voice of the community.
So I just took a step back from there. And then My ex partner's father ended up getting very sick and we ended up moving to Iowa to actually be closer to his family and with him. And for a long list of reasons, [00:25:00] I decided that I wasn't going to be out. I was going to be stealth. I wanted a chance just to experience What it was like to just be a man and just to live my life without having to carry that extra bag for a while, but it's like the things that we have in our closet. They don't go away. They're still there. So they can collect dust. They can sit on our bookshelves. They're still there and you still see them. And. It really felt, after a while living there, that I was denying this really amazing part of myself. Because I had done these really cool things, I had to keep doing these little edits of my story Oh, I didn't play softball, I played baseball.
Oh, I didn't do this, I did this. And it just never sat well with me. And finally, my ex wife and I ended up separating, and I ended up meeting someone who brought me out to the Pacific Northwest. And I finally just realized there were all these young brazen people, again working in the place where I worked.
And I was like, if these young people can be [00:26:00] out I could do that so many years ago, why can't I do this now? And there was a young man who I actually have befriended, and he's a really great guy, and he had his T date actually tattooed for when he started testosterone on his arm. And of course, we all know these little signs and signals that we have for each other.
And so one day, I'm sitting there at work with him, and I finally see this little tattoo, and I had my suspicions that he was also trans, and I was like, oh, cool. Is that your like, is that your birthday? And he's yes. And I'm like, that's my day too. Cause it actually happened to be the exact same day.
I also started to fast around and I was like, that's my day too. It's just 20 years earlier. He was like, holy shit. And I'm like, yeah.
Kai: That's amazing.
Garrett: So I think ever since that moment, I was like, I remembered how amazing that would have been for my younger self to have that. And I was like, I can't not be that.
Kai: Tell us more about that.
Garrett: Well, it was just so beautiful because we just then I think had to end up going back to work and doing our thing, but it was just like that moment of like [00:27:00] finally like solidarity and not being alone and finally seeing yourself I think. And he, of course, is a younger person, and he's had other friends and he's had community but I know how important that is.
Kai: Thank you. And we're so pleased to hear from younger listeners too, that talk about things like, we didn't know that we could get older. We didn't know. And so representation is so important and we're faced with these choices about when or how much to disclose throughout our lives.
Garrett: exactly.
Kai: I filled out an application and they were asking me about high school and achievements in high school. And I was like, I was female athlete of the year. I was this, I was that. And I can't say any of that stuff. It doesn't ever stop. We have to think about rewriting things
Jackal: One of the things in Colorado they always ask, what is your gender at birth? And I'm like, fuck you. I am not putting my, no, they don't. It's they're trying to be progressive or something, but it's I'm not giving you this information.
Like you don't need to know. All of my documentation, including my birth [00:28:00] certificate says male, so yeah, it comes up and it's triggering and it's weird. Yeah. Anyways,
Kai: I think you're right, Jackal. I think they're trying to be affirming and they also want to collect demographics. But it can put us at serious risk. The HR person doesn't need to know what sex I was assigned to birth. They really don't, it's not going to help them in any way.
Okay. So we're talking about history. We're talking about longevity and you've had periods where you were lower to non disclosing to more out. And now it sounds like you're living a lot more open. How have you managed to bounce back from adversity and stay involved with community?
Garrett: I was really lucky to go to Camp Lost Boys
Jackal: Did you and Kai meet at Lost Boys?
Garrett: was actually at the Colorado camp, right before
Jackal: Oh, I was this close to going to it, but I didn't have the money.
Garrett: You gotta go. You gotta go. And for anyone who's hesitating on going, apply for the scholarships. That's what they're there for.
Jackal: How was it?
Garrett: it was life changing. Because I live in this very progressive small town, and I know there's other trans men here, but I was like, whatever, maybe there'll be someone who I'll meet who lives in Seattle or [00:29:00] Tacoma. I was really lucky to go to camp with one of my best friends from college. I think he ended up transitioning about 10 years after I did. But it was really great because we had this plan to go together and in this one of moments where I was wandering around alone, I walk up to this little map where we have all of our names and where we're from.
And I see that there's someone from the same town that I'm from. And I was like, holy shit. And I made it my mission to find him. And I did. And then I was like, hi, we're from the same town. And then of course I ran away because I got shy. But then I was like, okay, I have to be brave.
I've made a commitment to myself to make a new friend here in this wonderful experience with all these beautiful, wonderful men who are just amazing. And it turns out I finally met my litter mate when I went to camp. Our journeys have been so intertwined. It's actually really quite beautiful. It was really also great because I ended up meeting another gentleman who lives just, South of here. So we've gotten just the three of us to really bond. And he's also been on the podcast too. It's just been really great to get [00:30:00] community finally.
And that's been really something that I've been able to fall back on especially the past couple weeks in this post election time as we try to figure out and navigate what our futures look like.
Kai: Yeah. And as you think about that in this political climate right now, there are lots of people trying to forecast how things will be. A lot of doom scrolling in our brains and also online.
When you think about the future, Garrett, do you think that your level of disclosure may shift as we move forward in the next four years?
Garrett: I've pondered that a little bit and pondered what that looks like. I think I'm very privileged in where I sit right now. I live in a state that has a lot of protections. I'm very safe where I am, and so it's one of those things where I feel that those of us who can must. We have that obligation to our young people, we have our obligations to our elders, we have our obligations to ourselves to love and protect each other. There's a really beautiful quote by Assata Shakur that's, It ends, where we must love and protect each other because [00:31:00] we have nothing to lose but our chains. And that's something that I truly believe. One of the things that I keep saying if anyone wants to, buy an old summer camp and we can all just live there harmoniously together, that'd be cool. Yeah, I think it'll probably shift. Things always shift. So we'll see what happens.
Kai: I'm a hundred percent committed to staying visible, to staying out there, to continue on this show. It is so important right now for us to be there recognizing our spot in the world, because not everybody can be or wants to be disclosing and lots of people just for their own personal and psychological safety are going to be more stealth or low disclosing and I really thank you for your answer and trust us we will be here
Jackal: Yeah. I'm not letting fear run my life. I just can't at this age and at this stage in my life, I just, I can't let that happen and I need to be a role model for others who feel more vulnerable, that's just who I am and who I [00:32:00] choose to be and who I always will be.
Garrett: I love that. And I just appreciate you guys being here so much for that. We need each other more than anything, and community truly is life changing and saving, I think, too, in these times.
Jackal: totally. Okay. You're in your early forties still, but there must have been like important milestones in your life that you are proud of. Challenges even. Like the young people who listen to our show are like, wow, I didn't even know I could get to be that old kind of thing.
And you're not that old. But inspire our youth with all of the milestones that you've accomplished in your life.
Garrett: Aw, man. I think one of the things that I'm probably most proud of was when I was working at Jasmine, We had this dream of having a clinic where young people could come in for HIV and STI testing, because at the time, that really didn't exist. And what we really wanted it to be was a place where young people could get hormone access.
That was the end goal, at [00:33:00] least in my mind because we knew that a lot of our young people were doing hormones, whether it was, black market so I remember just going to my boss and to the executive director of the organization and I was like what do we need to do to just do this? And they're like, well, we have a doctor. We just need some shelving. We basically just need an actual clinic space.
And I was like. Will you give me 200 of grant money and can I go to Home Depot and do you trust me to do this? And they just looked at me and they're like, yeah. And so I spent the next two days building shelves and organizing things in there. And then within two weeks, we had our first clinic night where we were.
We started doing STI testing for young people and we started doing rapid testing for them as well in our clinic and I then was like, okay, this is cool. We've done this. And I was like, well, we still need to do this because we have this one part of it, but now we need this other part. And. I remember just looking at some grants and finally walking over to my boss and to [00:34:00] my, amazing executive director being like, okay, I want to apply for this grant so we can start doing this. And they're like, okay, do it.
Kai: Wow.
Garrett: They're like, sit down and figure it out. Write it. And then we'll of course help you with this, you write the grant and we'll support you in it. And I took some time and I filled out the application, I wrote the grant, and it was how they ended up being able to start some really great support groups for trans women and trans people to actually start leading into that care.
Cindy Watson was the executive director of Jasmine for a really long time. She's just a phenomenal human. She recently retired and I'm so happy that she's now getting hopefully some time off finally.
But she was like, what does hormone access really mean? So we have healthcare what does that really look like? Why do we need to do this? And I was like, Cindy, it's about finally getting to be whole. And she just was like, well, that's the name of your grant, obviously. The wholeness project, which just was such a great way and really awesome segue into that. And so now Jasmine actually has two, if not more buildings, they have a huge [00:35:00] clinic, they do tons of youth access and clinic nights. And I know I have a really big part of that.
So I've been really proud of that milestone in my life to be able to look back on that. And when I go back home and get to visit has been just really cool to see how much they've expanded there.
Jackal: It's amazing that it's a project that you started what in the late 90s early 2000s and it's still going 20, 25 years later
Garrett: yeah,
Jackal: that's really cool because a lot of people start a project, and then for whatever reason funding or, lack of personnel or whatever they go out they go away.
But to be able to like, look back and see it today, like that's incredible.
Garrett: yeah. And a lot of that is due to Cindy and just her amazing organizing. She taught me how to write a grant. This is what you do, you apply for everything, worst case they do is say no. Yeah, it was a really awesome experience, getting to work with her and having that experience.
Jackal: So you said you live in a pretty progressive area and you have the ability to be out and be that connected person for [00:36:00] youth. What type of support or activism do you think is needed in your region or maybe in the United States? What do you think we need to do? Given the political climate.
Garrett: that's a good question. I think we really need to look at how can we support our brothers, sisters and siblings in southern and red states and not forget about them. I think that's one of the most important things. A lot of people have a lot of righteous anger about the election and how things have turned out, but we still can't abandon the, those people. I think also figuring out healthcare is always that big thing. Not just in this current climate for us, but also as we age. What does it look like for trans people in elder care facilities? How do we support each other as we age?
I don't have children I'm not going to have children. What does that really look like as we get older? And how do we [00:37:00] support each other? Do we literally all golden girls it all together? What do we do? Especially again, with this political climate, how do we protect and support each other, especially our most vulnerable?
Jackal: Permanent camp lost boys,
Garrett: exactly. Again, summer camp who wants to buy one?
Jackal: Summer camp year round.
Garrett: But again, I can't express how beautiful it is, especially in days where you feel that having your brothers means. So much.
Jackal: Yeah, totally agreed. What would you like to say to the newer generation of trans and non binary folk?
Garrett: First, welcome. I'm glad you found your way here. I'm so happy you found your way here. I think oftentimes people talk about, it does get better, all those things. I have a friend who loves to say that being queer and trans is one of the best parts about him because he wouldn't have the most beautiful life that he does and the interesting life that he does and know the people that he does without it.
It doesn't mean that it's the best thing every single day. Yeah, but I really [00:38:00] wouldn't have seen the beautiful things that I've seen unless I had walked this path.
Jackal: right?
Garrett: and I think also especially for younger people keep talking to me. Teach me just as I taught young people.
There are new things that I can learn every single day from young people and sometimes I don't know that language and I still need to be taught that language around non binary things sometimes.
I love that I have a non binary co worker where I can be like, okay, what does this mean? I need you to do these things. But I've lost a lot of my shame and I will just ask anymore.
Jackal: So how do you think we can be more supportive of our trans masculine community? Both the newer generation and the elders. You've talked about this a little bit, but what specific things can we really do to support our community?
Garrett: Oh, man. I think be there for each other. Especially because the way that young women are socialized, sometimes there's a lot of that girl on girl competition. And I think it bleeds over into young trans men in this [00:39:00] competitive vibe that we sometimes have. And I think a lot of it comes to access about who gets to start hormones first and all of these other things.
That might just come from the generation where I transitioned, where a lot of us were so envious to begin something that we were at each other's throats, for lack of a better way to say it. I hope that we could really just move past that and really just support each other and celebrate each other's victories all together as a community.
Because when one of us succeeds, we all succeed. One of my favorite things is when someone I love has a great success in life, and I think often capitalism in our culture tells us to be envious of that and, want what your neighbor has, and we have to just celebrate that versus being envious of that, I think.
Kai: Makes me think about way back when people would, have a beard before us or before me or get top surgery before I could
Garrett: Yeah.
Kai: and how I
Jackal: five 10 and
Kai: Yeah, or be 5'10 right?
Garrett: Yeah.
Kai: exactly. Or who's, who's a baritone, just like we, I think we compare [00:40:00] ourselves to one another and I, it's a really nice reminder to celebrate the fact that somebody is having access to something or is 5'10 or whatever.
So thank you for that.
Garrett: Yeah, well I just remember being at camp and there was a gentleman there who always had been made to feel bad because he was also very tall and very very muscular and this beautiful man, and it was the first time he ever got to really be celebrated for being so tall and being so beautiful.
big and there is just this like crowd of men who are just like in all of him because he was just they're like no you're just so strong and so big and we love this and you could just see it was the first time he ever been celebrated like that beautiful to be like oh no dude take up all this space please like you deserve it
Jackal: I like that. I like that take up space. It's like no matter your size or stature or personality, take up space, like you deserve to be, you deserve your space. I think that's [00:41:00] great.
Garrett: Well, we're told we have so little and we have so much. And I think so much of us come from that, Oh, I should take up even littler space because again, going back to that idea of having to reconcile with some of that self hatred of being a man, so I'm going to take up even less space or no space at all. And no, there's plenty for us. We just have to be mindful about how we can all share this together. That's
Jackal: Sometimes I joke that stealth happened to me, but actually there is a psychological ideology around stealth that means I'm not supposed to take up space because what if I'm seen, right? This scary kind of balance so you take up less and less space so that you're not visible and it's Be visible, be visible. Even if you're low disclosing, I think that there's a way that you can be positive masculinity out in the world and be big, be yourself. So our last question here is what do you think we should have asked that we didn't or any final words of wisdom?
Garrett: That's a good question. I can't really think of anything, [00:42:00] honestly. Going back to support and how do we support each other and resources? I wish. Especially when gay marriage came around, one of the things that I think a lot of people didn't think about was that we would also end up having gay divorces and queer divorces. As someone who experienced a divorce a couple years ago and then, remarried. I wish that we had a little bit more support, especially for trans men going through divorce, because I don't think We talk much about what that's and then what that's like getting out there dating again.
Like a friend of mine asked recently what is it like dating when you're a trans man? Because he's been married for so many years. And I just wish there was some more conversations around that.
Jackal: Next season, we're going to ask questions.
Garrett: Hi, have you been divorced? Do you want to talk about it?
Kai: But it's another transition, right? It's like, how do I, which app do I download?
Garrett: Yeah.
Kai: how does that even work?
Jackal: And several of our guests have gone through a divorce, even recently, even after our show, that kind of [00:43:00] thing. I'm not partnered, so it's not something that I think about too much. But I think it's a really good and important thing to think about, especially like you say, in that support aspect how are you doing checking in with people? That's a big grieving process just in and of itself, let alone reentering the world of being alive and dating, right?
Garrett: Well, it's just, men don't talk enough about those emotions, and then I think as trans men we sometimes fall into that wave as well, where, oh, I'm fine, who's not gonna talk about it? And I know I myself fell into that trap a lot, many years ago, and finally been able to be like, no, I have to talk about these things.
Kai: really strange. And like social media, sometimes, you find out about divorce or separation or somebody moved. It's just Hey, I'm in Germany now. And I'm like, what? Wait a minute, what?
Jackal: see you last week at the picnic?
Kai: And so I have no concept that someone's, that the relationship is ending, or changing or, and then all of a sudden there's this like a status update on Facebook.
It's [00:44:00] just such a weird thing
Garrett: yeah. Yeah.
Kai: It's just a weird way to be, and yeah, I think you're right about that. It's a huge life transition, and so many of us as we age and we've been in more and more relationships, those relationships can end.
Garrett: Yeah. Well, a lot of us also fall into that whole idea of that good boy culture, and where we don't talk about when things are bad. Never helps anyone.
Kai: That's true. And another announcement for camp because Camp Lost Boys talks a lot about taking up space, not being like the good boys, we're all such good boys all the time. I think we're so hyper aware of how we should present and what, how much space we should take up. And we don't want to be one of those guys that tramples all over everything.
And yeah, really nice messages, really nice reminders. Thank you.
Garrett: You're welcome.
Kai: Hey, Kai here. Jackal and I are excited to offer a new members section on our webpage. As a member, you'll get ad free episodes with bonus material like transmasculine history. Here's a teaser. Let's get started with famed [00:45:00] African American gospel singer Wilmer Broadnax, the frontman for his own quartet called Little Axe and the Golden Echoes.
I should here mention that Little Axe was his nickname. He was a small guy, especially compared to his brother William, who went by the nickname Big Axe. Go to our website and sign up to become a member today.
Jackal: Now it's time for Transponder.
Today's TransJoy segment is a shout out to BTAC, the Black Trans Advocacy Coalition. BTAC's 2025 Black Trans Advocacy Conference and Gala registration is now open. The conference will happen from April 22nd to April 27th in Dallas, Texas. Today is the last day for the early bird pricing.
So go buy your tickets today, January 26th. Basic price is $150. General admission is $250 VIP passes are [00:46:00] $350. If you go with a team of five or more people, it's $300 per person and parents with children, two to four people is $150 per person. So go support the BTAC conference and we hope to see you there. go to btac. blacktrans. org to get more information.
If you have trans joy that you would like us to share on our Instagram, please contact our Instagram page at Transmasculine Podcast. We enjoy your comments and look forward to hearing from you. Lastly, this show would be nothing without our guests who share their insight Expertise and heartfelt stories.
We absolutely adore you and are forever grateful to you.
Kai: Good job today,
Jackal: Jackal. Good job to you, Kai.
Kai: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. Stealth tries to capture stories of those who transitioned before. the year 2000. We recognize that language has its limitations. The [00:47:00] words we use to describe ourselves and our community evolve over time and will not represent everyone's experience.
We also want you to know that the health and well being of our community is our number one priority.
Jackal: In fact, we want to give a shout out to parents who are supporting their gender non conforming kids. Supporting your child in the development and expression of their identity is not child abuse. We support you and love you for supporting your kids.
We fully anticipate that people and groups will express positivity and negativity in response to our stories. We're prepared to deal with this, and as you know, thrilled to be one small part of our community.
Kai: We offer links to health and safety resources on our website. We monitor our social media platforms, we respond to feedback from our audience, and we will be accountable when we screw up.
Jackal: We want you to know that we are just two guys doing this in our spare time. We are getting better, but we are still rookies and still two old farts to boot. So we ask that you still be patient with us as we learn the ropes and find [00:48:00] our way. The opinions expressed on our podcast are our own and those of our guests.
We do not represent any outside
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