Anthony
Anthony (he/him) is a 48-year old transman who lives in Brooklyn, NY with his wife of 15 years and their 8-year old son. He has been part of the Queer community since the 90s. After questioning his gender identity for many years, he decided to begin his medical transition in 2013. Anthony is most proud of being a father and a husband and he enjoys cooking, horror movies and being a mentor to other transmen.
S5E11 Anthony
Jackal: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, welcome back to Stealth A Trans Masculine Podcast. I'm Jackal.
Kai: And I'm Kai. We're your hosts for the Transmasculine Podcast. Our show continues to focus on the stories of people who identify as transmasculine and who transitioned either socially or medically before or around the year 2000.
We will continue to make efforts to include stories from trans men of color and acknowledge the importance of representation from these voices.
Jackal: The name of our show highlights two important facts that one, for our generation, we were often told to hide our past and live an underground existence. And that due to that, Our stories are very often overlooked.
Kai: We want our audience to know that we ourselves are a part of this generation of trans masculine identified people, and that we value the experiences inside our trans masculine community. We want people to know that throughout our lives, each of us [00:01:00] has had to navigate issues of disclosure, which have impacted us in many ways.
Jackal: As humans, we are always changing and transitioning. As elder trans men, we assume many roles. We get married and divorced. We are caretakers, we are parents, we are professionals, academics, and advocates. We push for human rights and systemic change. We are exploring the various transitions that we undergo post transition.
Kai: If you're new to our show, welcome. And if you're a listener from a previous season, thank you for your continued support. You can find us on most social media platforms, including YouTube. These are trying times and we want to acknowledge that here in the States and throughout the world, there are groups trying to remove protections in place for our trans and non binary communities.
Safety is a real concern for us, particularly our trans and non binary BIPOC siblings. We offer links to health and safety resources on our website, transmasculinepodcast. com. Please hold each other dear and stay in touch with us.
Jackal: We invite our listeners to remember that we are a living [00:02:00] community. We are healthy.
We are contributing. We have experienced loss and success. We are loved and we welcome you to our stories. We want to give a content warning for this episode. There is talk about mental health issues.
Kai: Remember, you can go to our website, transmasculinepodcast. com for resources for crisis lines, including the Trevor Project, Trans Lifeline, and Suicide Prevention Lifeline.
Transmasculinepodcast. com.
Meik: music
Hi there. I'm Mike, and I'm the creator of Transmasc Stories. When I was at the start of my transition, I searched for uplifting stories of people who had questioned their gender identity, gone through their transition, and come out stronger. I needed direction, and a light at the end of the tunnel.
Transmasc Stories is my way of paying it forward. It's the resource I wish I'd had, a space full of real, positive, and anonymous transition [00:03:00] stories from transmasculine individuals, offering clarity and hope for anyone navigating their journey. If you're on the transmasculine spectrum, I'd love for you to share your story.
And if you know someone who could use some direction, send them over to transmascstories. com to explore. Dozens of transition stories. All right, that's all. Enjoy the show now. Cheers.
Jackal: Okay, so we're wrapping up season five and we typically do stats, I think we missed doing stats in season four, but sorry about that. Season five. Here we go. Kai, what kind of stats do you got for us?
Kai: I collected the analytics from our different web hosting places, so from our website and then also Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
And I tracked it back to when we started back in, on [00:04:00] Halloween of 2021.
Jackal: Holy Molly.
Kai: Yep. Till present day. And so just generally we've had 18,000 hits to our website, which
Jackal: Holy moly. I know that might not be a lot to some people, but for me
Kai: Yeah.
Jackal: Sounds amazing.
Kai: know. It's pretty great. Our busiest year was 2023. We had more people come on in 2023. I have geography and then how people find us. And then the most listened episodes. Most of the folks that are listening are tuning in from the United States.
It may not be a surprise. 9% are from Canada 6% from the UK and then we had a tie with Germany, Mexico, France, and then Australia. But we've had close to 100 countries.
Jackal: Wow.
Kai: Listeners tune in just for our website from a hundred countries. 94 confirmed countries, and then six are unknown, so that's about a hundred.
And then most of the folks have found us through our website. Some [00:05:00] folks have searched online. 25% did online searches through Google mostly. And then 12% found us through social media.
So please share the link let people know how to find us. We have a lot of listeners on Apple Podcasts, we've had 60,000 plays on apple Podcast and the most listened episodes have been Jason. Over 3,500 people have listened to Jason's episode. Rocco is next, Sean from season one.
Billy Jude and James, the top ones. And so Spotify breaks down the listeners by gender, and this is just how people register on Spotify. 45% of our listeners on Spotify are designated as female, 31% male, 7% non-specified, and 17% non-binary. Yeah. And then lastly, the ages of folks. The majority of our listeners are between 28 and 44. 28 to 34 year olds are 30% of our listeners. And then [00:06:00] 35 to 44 make up a quarter of our listeners. There's 1% under 17, so we're really sorry for all the cuss words. I know y'all know about cussing, we are explicit and today we had some cussing.
We dropped so many F bombs, I can't
Jackal: Oh my God, you know what? I'm sure that 1% of under 17 probably says more cuss words than we do. Probably knows much more cuss words.
Kai: with Bum. Yeah, they probably know a lot more. Yeah. And then what I'd really like to do is just shout out a couple of members that we have by first name. Hopefully it's not too revealing, but we have through our website we have memberships, and on Apple podcasts we have, memberships and I just wanna say like some of our longest serving members include sky and Matt and Harold and Taylor, and Shay, and Evan. Alex,
Jackal: feel like. What was that show? Not Mary Poppins, but romper Room. Did you ever see that?
Kai: Oh yeah. That God, that's a long time ago. Jesus. With the little holding up the thing.
Jackal: Yeah. And so now you see, who do you see?
Kai: Yeah, I [00:07:00] know, right? Yeah. Lvo, Adrian Vo. Owen Kaylin Lynn. Sorry if I'm mispronouncing Elijah. Pat. Marty, Jamie Ren, Andrew Finn, Patrick Zan Rory Verde. And Shea Cole, Augustine, Astor. Will, Suzanne Jackal
You're a member
Jackal: yes. Hey,
Kai: Okay. There, there's a lot more, and I'll. I know that my siblings are my actual, like birth siblings are members too. So shout out to all of our supporters and we are so thankful for our guests and so thankful for our listeners.
Jackal: Well done.
Yeah. And so I wanted to break down our guests as we do. We had, 82% identified as men of trans experience. About 18% just identified as male. And then there were different contexts, no idea thrown in for flavor. This season we had more, trans men of color. Then we had white guests.
Thank you [00:08:00] Kai, for all your outreach on that. So we had 64% of the guests identified as trans men of color, five of the 11 who we interviewed identify as black or African American. We. Had every single guest this season was younger than me and Kai, so that shifted the transition year to about half being around the year 2000 and about half transitioning after the year 2005.
So if it feels different for any flavor of that, that's why. We do have quite a bit of geographical representation. Still the majority are from the U.S. However even that was. Flavored out. So we have two from the East coast, two from the west Coast, two from the south, two from the Great Lakes Midwest area, two Canadians and one person from the uk.
[00:09:00] So we had a lot of geographic representation this season and. The other identities that were there were disabled. We had two Jewish guys, two dog dads, a twin, an anarchist, and several husbands and or fathers. So I think that we've done really good as far as the diversity of our guests this season. And I really look forward to continuing on in season six when we're gonna have our 75th episode.
Kai: Yes. Yes. And that's a huge shout out. Just thank you for trusting us, with your stories and for coming on air and sharing . We really couldn't do it without you, and we're so happy to have to know you and that you came on. So thank you Jackal.
Yeah. And thank you. Yeah. Yeah.
Jackal: You for your work on the stats. Yeah, it was a great season.
Kai: Yeah. Yeah.
Adam: Anthony, he, him is a 48-year-old trans man who lives in Brooklyn, New York, with his wife of 15 years and their 8-year-old son. He has been part of the queer [00:10:00] community since the nineties. After questioning his gender identity for many years, he decided to begin his medical transition in 2013. Anthony is most proud of being a father and a husband, and he enjoys cooking, horror movies and being a mentor to other trans men.
Anthony's tranniversary
is 2013, an explosive year, both metaphorically and unfortunately, quite literally. 2013 was the year of the Boston Marathon bombing, which resulted in the deaths of two people and the injury of nearly 300. It was also the year of George Zimmerman's trial for the murder of Trayvon Martin, and in the wake of the much contested not guilty verdict, the genesis of the Black Lives Matter movement 2013 also marked the first shutdown of the American government, mostly over the Affordable Care Act, which marked the beginning of a brand new era of childlike, partisan tactics.
It was also the year the City of Detroit declared bankruptcy and the year that New York mayoral hopeful Anthony Wiener was caught in yet another sexting scandal. [00:11:00] In 2013, we lost notable global figures, Nelson Mandela, Margaret Thatcher, Robert Ebert, and Lou Reed.
Meanwhile, in the uk, prince William and Kate Middleton welcomed their first son, prince George. Some of the biggest headlines of the year centered around gay rights. In June, the US Supreme Court cleared the way for the subsequent legalization of gay marriage by ruling against part of the Defensive Marriage Act, which in a five four ruling was found unconstitutional.
In a separate case, California's ban on same-sex marriage was overturned in a federal appeals court. The US Senate got its first openly gay member, and Congress had its largest ever L-G-B-T-Q Caucus with a whopping seven openly queer members by the end of the year.
In keeping with the queer themes of 2013 Disney's Frozen was the top grossing film of the year, followed by Iron Man three and Despicable Me too. 2013 was the year that the Harlem Shake video went viral, along with Norwegian pop band, Elvis's Unforgettable video. What [00:12:00] does the fox say?
Jackal: Hey, so welcome back to Stealth. We are here with Anthony. How are you doing today, Anthony?
Anthony: I'm good. How are you?
Jackal: I'm good, thank you. Hey, so we always start by saying how we know each other, which I don't believe we actually do know each other. So how did you become a guest on our show?
Anthony: Yeah. A friend of mine, I would say maybe two and a half years ago, told me about the podcast. And I checked it out and really enjoyed it. And then, started listening, listened to every episode, every season. And then I signed up recently to be a mentor. And I met Kai online at a, zoom chat that we had for the mentors and mentees and then, decided I would like to be a part of it and you all invited me on.
Jackal: Awesome. Thank you so much.
Anthony: Sure.
Kai: Big shout out to your friend for letting you know. Thank you about that.
Anthony: definitely. And he's really into, I told him [00:13:00] that I was gonna be on, he's very excited.
Kai: So cool. And I'm really impressed by your dedication to listen to every episode. That's terrific. Thank you. Okay, so thinking in the way back time machine, Anthony, can you talk to us a little bit about how did you first find out about trans-masculine identities?
Anthony: Sure. Yeah. I was in Oregon. I lived in Portland right after I graduated college. And I was friends with trans guys. And I guess that was the first I had ever seen and heard of it. I've been in the queer community since I came out when I was like 16. But I didn't hear that word or didn't know anybody, didn't really know anything until I had moved to Oregon.
And became friends with these two trans guys and I didn't really think of it in regards to myself or my identity until many years later.
Kai: Okay. How did you meet those [00:14:00] two trans guys? And then talk to us about your transition and all that.
Anthony: Yeah. They were just friends in my, friends of friends in my larger group in Portland. It's a very queer city and, even at the time that I was there way back in, I guess it was 1999 when I first moved there. It was a lot of fun.
Just a bunch of young punk queers running around having a blast. And so I met them through friends and I'm still friends with them now. Not great friends 'cause we don't live in the same city. But we're still close. And when I decided to finally transition myself, I reached out to one of them and, asked some questions and got a lot of support from him. So that was really helpful. And I think it was about 2012 that I started considering whether or not I might be trans and whether or not I wanted to do something about it. At the time I was married to my wife, who I'm still married to, [00:15:00] and we had been together for about three years and married for I think maybe a year and a half. And at the time I was, identifying as I guess lesbian, queer and, I was really pretty nervous. Just, 'cause I was older, like I was probably like 35 at the time, kind of, established.
Had my life, had my relationship, my job, my family, this and that. But, started to really feel like, okay, this is something that I need to do and I wanna do and I'm ready to do it. And I had thought about it once prior to that, maybe five or six years prior to that.
And I remember just talking to one of my good friends, just asking her like, Hey, we all feel this way, right? All of us butches feel this way. And she was like, no. And I was like, huh, okay. So that was my first thing where I was just like, wait, everyone doesn't feel this way.
Just 'cause we all look [00:16:00] similar and have similar sexualities and queerness and things like that. But at the time I was younger, I was not ready. I was not in a good place. So I pushed it down.
Kai: So in the late nineties you were in Portland. You met some queers and some trans guys, and then did you have any hints back then that there was anything floating around. I don't know if that was true for you, Jackal but I remember always having a talk with people I was dating. I'd be like, look, here's the deal. I feel like a boy,
Anthony: Uhhuh.
Kai: And this and that, and I didn't know what it was or
Anthony: Yeah. Yeah.
Kai: was gonna lead to anything. I didn't even know it could. Was there anything like that along the way? Dropping hints.
Anthony: no. Actually it's really interesting. I feel like one of those. More atypical trans stories where I grew up the way I grew up and came out as Les when I was 16. Actually I came out as bi, which is hilarious 'cause I have come full circle. And then came out as Les and then, was, super butch throughout most of my [00:17:00] adult life. It just never occurred to me until that first time when I had already moved to New York, so it was probably about, maybe 2005, 2006. That was the first time that it really occurred to me.
Kai: Tell us more about what was going on.
Anthony: I don't know. I guess I just started feeling like a dude and wanna be a man and don't wanna be in this body. I actually had a breast reduction before I had top surgery 'cause I very had all kinds of back problems and whatnot. And I remember at the time meeting with the doctor and she was like what size do you wanna go down to?
And I was like, in my head, size zero, but I was like I guess maybe an A or a B. And she was like how about a C? And I was like, okay, whatever. And then I had all kinds of complications, medical complications from that procedure. I think I just was like, something is going on and I don't know.
I don't know what it [00:18:00] is, even though I think I did and just wasn't ready emotionally, I think I was scared about my family. I was scared about, dating. I was scared about losing friends. I was just scared. So I think at that point I knew, but I just wasn't emotionally, physically ready for it.
Kai: And so as time went on and you were more settled, something was happening that led you to think, okay, this is something I can grapple with right now. 'cause it's a big decision. Yeah.
Anthony: Yeah. I was, with my wife and, we got married and we were actually one of the first couples in New York City to get legally married at Brooklyn Borough Hall. And it was really fun and really amazing and beautiful. And we had just bought an apartment and we're thinking about having kids, and I think the thing that really cemented it for me was when we decided that we were gonna have a kid, and I realized that I did not want it to even be a possibility that my kid would ever call me mom or mama. And I was like, oh shit. [00:19:00] This is real. I need to do this now. Because that thought just absolutely terrified me.
And I was like, no, I am not doing that. I was like, I don't want to grow up to be an old lady. I wanna grow up to be an old man. That was when it really hit me and I was like, okay, I'm doing this. And I didn't have any hesitation after that. As soon as it clicked in my head, I was like, this is happening.
I'm doing it. I'm gonna do X, Y, Z in this order. And here's the people I'm gonna tell in this order. I told my wife first. I was nervous to tell her, but ultimately I knew that she would be supportive 'cause she's amazing and prior to us being together, had dated every gender under the sun.
I wasn't necessarily afraid that she would have a problem with it or would reject me or would, be sad.
Stories that I had heard about people that were in, relationships or marriages where, they were in this marriage for a long time and then one person comes out as trans and, causes problems [00:20:00] because the other person might not consider themselves somebody who can roll with that or be into that. But I knew that my wife wouldn't react that way and she didn't.
She was great. And she's been, super duper supportive ever since.
Kai: How did you share the news?
Anthony: It took me a while to share it with her once I realized, oh, okay, this is what's going on with me and I'm ready to finally do something about it.
It took me a few months to share with her because, I was a little nervous just because, it is a big deal and I knew in my heart that she would be fine with it and she would be supportive. But of course, even knowing that it's still a little scary that this person that you've made a life with, what if?
But yeah, I told her when I was absolutely certain that I wanted to medically transition. I had already made up my mind that I was gonna get top surgery and start hormones. And yeah, I told her one evening [00:21:00] in our house and, it was hard. I think she knew maybe a little bit I don't know if she was that surprised.
But I think it was still, like a grieving process, I've come to realize with time that any person who you know loves you, your family, your partner, your children, whoever, they need some sort of adjustment period. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a negative adjustment or that they're not gonna love you or if they're gonna treat you differently. In my case, it wasn't like that, but everyone needed their own time and their own way to process it. And at the time that was really hard for me. 'cause to me it felt like, oh, you're not a hundred percent onboard. Supportive, okay, shoot, this is not good.
But with hindsight, of course, and with, growth and maturity and age I realize now, that's just what people need. And it doesn't mean anything necessarily. It's [00:22:00] just, an adjustment for everybody. But yeah, I remember we had one moment where we cried and wondered, oh no, what does this mean for us?
What's gonna happen? Just the unknown of it all. I think that was probably the hardest part. And then also I remember her telling me. That her biggest fear was that once I medically transitioned, that we wouldn't be read as a queer couple anymore. That we would be read as a cis couples, just straight couple, whatever.
And both of us actually feared that because, both of us had been queer our entire, teen and adult lives. And that was a big deal too. Think about what if we're not seen as that, out in the community, out in public. And that was a big concern of ours and a big fear of ours.
But I think other than that, she didn't have any problems with it. She was just super supportive which was awesome. And, ready to have my back in all of the parts of the transition. And she has, and it's made us stronger in our [00:23:00] marriage over time.
And, come to find out it, the whole thing that we feared about not being seen, not being visible anymore. Yes, it does happen sometimes, if we're out in the community or not our community. 'cause our community, we know a lot of people, it's a small. Brooklyn is big, but our neighborhood, most people stay in the neighborhood and we know each other and we have a child and they have kids and you're interacting with people.
But outside of that, yeah, of course we, I'm sure we don't get read as queer unless other people are queer. 'cause you can usually tag each other. But it's just not a big deal.
Kai: Anthony, what were some of the things you were told about how to live your life as a trans man?
Anthony: I don't think that I was told anything in particular at least not by, anyone that I'm close to or any of my family or anything like that. I think things came out later with that, like, certain ways that you're, quote unquote supposed to act or supposed to be, or [00:24:00] supposed to look like.
Jackal: Hey. You started telling us a story about coming out to your brother, and I'm wondering if there was any messages in there about how to be a man , rather than being a trans man
Anthony: sure.
Jackal: That you picked up.
Anthony: Yeah. When I came out to my brother, I was really nervous and I remember calling him on the phone and telling him. Hey, I have something to tell you. And it's, really important. And he was like, okay. And I was like, it's a big deal. And he was like, I know what it is.
And I was like, no, you can't possibly know what this is. He was like, I totally know. And I was like, no, you can't know. It's no way. And he was like, no, I do. And I was like what do you think it is? And he said. You're getting a sex change. And I was just, I just started cracking up. I was just like, oh my God.
And I was like no. And then I was like yeah, but no.
Jackal: No. No. Yes.
no, Yes.
Anthony: but yes. I was like, so technically that is, not a thing that you say and but [00:25:00] yes, I am transitioning to, and we just laughed about it. And I talked to him about how to come out to my parents.
And he basically was like, man up. And I was like, okay, that's a stupid phrase, but to him it was just like, you gotta do it. Just do it. Don't think about it, don't be in your emotions about it. Don't be in your head about it. And I think that message is pretty prevalent among, certain people that like, to be a man, you have to be tough and strong and not too emotional and things like that. I don't think necessarily that was his message. I think it was just a funny thing to say at the time. Because he turned out to actually be really supportive, which I was really pleasantly surprised.
He was definitely like my big advocate with my parents and with my aunts and uncles of Anthony's doing this, get on board, it's happening. So he was really awesome with that. But in terms of messaging from outside people or anything like that? No. Of course growing up, AFAB, it's like you're getting these [00:26:00] messages about, gender and what it means to be a woman and a man, and a girl and a boy, and things like that.
You're pummeled with that since, since early childhood. So you can't avoid it. But at that time, I wasn't really focused on that. I was most mostly focused on myself, my health, my wellbeing, my marriage and relationship, and just doing this major thing that I had wanted to do for so long and focusing on that.
Jackal: Awesome. How do you think your social standings like race, class abilities, sexual identity, being a lesbian impacted your ability to transition your fears about transitioning.
Anthony: I was in a fortunate situation where I had support from my family, my immediate family, my extended family, obviously my wife and her family. And the community, I had a lot of already trans friends by that time and a lot of people, in different gender identities.
So I [00:27:00] had, the fortunate luck of having a lot of support in my community. Also at the time, surgery top surgery wasn't covered under any insurance. I think it was probably like a few years until it would be by then I had to put my surgery on five credit cards basically.
That's a resource that a lot of people don't even have. So that was a privilege to be able to even just, oh, I'm gonna get the surgery and it costs. I think it was like 16,000 bucks. Okay, I'm gonna do this. And it's not, I don't have to, save up for a hundred years.
I'm just gonna pay for it later for however long it takes to pay it off. But yeah, I don't know. Other than that, I'm not really sure.
Jackal: That's fine. So our show is called Stealth. So we ask this question all the time. What does stealth mean to you?
Anthony: So I remember listening to the show, a couple years ago when y'all first started, and at the time I was like, I really don't like [00:28:00] that word Stealth. It doesn't feel good. And I think the reason why it didn't feel good some, and still doesn't to an extent, is that it feels like you're hiding something.
And I know other guests have, said this too, and guys have talked about it a lot. It just feels like you're hiding, you're keeping something from somebody and you have to be sneaky. And but I think over the years, especially now with all of this insane climate that we're in, the political climate being what it is in the last, seven, eight years especially now with, trans people being the target of so many people.
And just having to watch our backs literally and watch each other's backs. Now I think of it more okay, if I need to be stealth, I can be stealth if it's a matter of safety and concern, especially if I'm out with my son and I'm like in a situation where it, I know that, okay, if I'm not stealth right now, this is gonna be dangerous.
So I can go in and out of that as I need to. Which is [00:29:00] also a privilege because I don't I don't think that I'm in a position where I need to really worry if I can be stealth at all. I think I can just if I need to be stealth, I can be stealth and I know some people can't do that because they're, either in the transition process or they're not medically transitioning at all and they're trans or they're non-binary or, they don't quote unquote pass.
Which is really scary for people. So it's not that I relate to it more now, but I understand that's something that I might need to do in a certain safety situation.
Jackal: Going with that. Have you ever lived a low to non disclosing lifestyle like
for a period of time? Or is it just situational where you feel mostly out but circumstantial, you're like, I'm not coming out in this situation 'cause I'm with my son.
Anthony: Yeah. So I think for the most part it's probably a 50 50 lifestyle if I could, say that. The people that are in my [00:30:00] life, that I love and are friends and community all know and then, people that like say, my son's, friend at school, their parents I think one, he's got five or six kids at school that we have regular play dates with.
One of those couples know, and the rest of them don't. And the only reason that even happened was because, I'm comfortable enough with them. I know that they're not jerks. They're not gonna hold it against us or, treat my son any differently, God forbid.
But for the most part, unless it's relevant to our relationship or the situation, then I don't feel the need to disclose. So it's definitely situational.
Jackal: Thank you.
Kai: Yeah, you're touching on those tipping points that we encounter when we're feeling some sort of pressure angst and, when is a good time to tell this person or this couple. And we're faced with those all the time. And I think, everybody's privacy and safety. Our most important concerns and just we make decisions [00:31:00] and they can have long-term implications. So thank you very much for sharing that. We're talking now about our ongoing persistence over the years and strengths and how we keep ourselves motivated and connected and bounce back when times might be a little tough. How have you stayed in the game, stayed involved and persisted over the years?
Anthony: I think just by living your life honestly. That's the first and foremost, by being there for the people that rely on me my wife and my son obviously and just being a, a voice that isn't going to be shut down or easily silenced. I don't I'm not super duper involved with activism at the moment, but I have had periods.
Where I'm more involved in, demonstrations and protests around the city. And, I know that there was even here in Brooklyn where it's quote unquote safe space. A few years ago there was a bomb threat at our local library, where we go with our son on a regular [00:32:00] basis, a few blocks away because there was a drag queen story hour.
And we had been taking our son to that for years, since he was a baby. And I remember, feeling oh my God, I can't believe that this is happening here on my street, in our backyard. And there were a lot of protests about that and, just a lot of, being vocal about, this is happening and you can't just shut it down.
So definitely, there's periods of my life where I've been. More active than not, but I think in general, even just living your life and not hiding except when you have to for safety and being, loud and proud and going to the, trans visibility march and, waving your flags in your house and, teaching your kid about, justice and queer rights and things like that are, ways that we do it every day.
Me and my wife.
Kai: This is a really hard time for our community. Sam Norquist was murdered in New York. Trans man of color, devastating to all of us. It's just haunting. I have [00:33:00] family that lives in San Francisco and they had a memorial and protest against the deaths of Sam and other trans-feminine folks yesterday and they were marching and demonstrating and in New York, in Brooklyn and in different parts, what's happening in your area specifically?
Anthony: There's a lot coming through for trans Day of Visibility which is towards the end of the month. I've been trying to stay off of social media.
Sometimes it's just too much. I need to step back a little bit. I'm in that mindset right now just because it's just too hard at the moment and there's so much going on. But I also understand that, you can't do that all the time. You can take little breaks if you need to.
Take care of yourself and your own mentality when it's time. So I haven't really heard of anything in particular to Sam and what happened to him. But my wife actually, they do a weekly protest demonstration at our local playground.
One of the schools is putting it on [00:34:00] and one of the public schools around here. And it's primarily for, pro-Palestinian. But they're also tying in trans and queer issues and also letting,
Jackal: That's cool that they're combining.
Things like that because sometimes we get the messages that like, oh, this community is anti-trans and they won't, blah, blah, blah. But when things blend and mix and you show support inside of everything. That's a really good message.
Anthony: My wife is a little bit more active especially with, palestinian stuff right now and with Gaza and her family's really involved with that as well. But yeah, this is a, double demo. And it also has, they also have activities for kids. We took him to a demo in Union Square a couple of weeks ago. They're trying to pass these laws about, taking away gender affirming care to trans youth even in New York. And I know that one of the hospitals here did it even though they didn't have to do it, which
Kai: Landgone
Anthony: so, Yeah.
Landgone. And I heard Sinai as well.
But we took him to [00:35:00] that demo, which was awesome. It was huge. I think it was up to a thousand, maybe 1500 people in Union Square. It was loud, it was awesome. But I think, our son is on the spectrum and he has sensory issues, so he can't really hang out at those for too long. But at this playground that she's going to now. It's more catered to kids, which is awesome too. 'cause they have little areas where the kids and the parents can do their thing. So it's really great.
Jackal: Awesome.
Kai: I think you're highlighting just a few things that are really important, is that our own personal safety and wellbeing, like our health, our mental health,
how much or how little you read the news or get on social media. And those are all really personal decisions.
And you're also highlighting just the importance of not being siloed in activism with issues as the government right now is. Joining, trying to really take away rights of immigrants and trans people and Medicaid and all those things. And they're demonstrating, the.
Anthony: vulnerable [00:36:00] people.
Kai: Yeah. The amazing thing that's happening right now is we're protesting, we're demonstrating we're blocking freeways in, in L.A. There's some energy happening because it's so horrendous, and I really just wanna respect your decisions and then just whittle it down just a little bit.
How connected are you to actual other trans guys or trans folks in your area? Like on a personal level.
Anthony: Yeah I have a lot of trans friends and have for many years both within my community in my actual building. And then beyond that, like in the Brooklyn, New York area. In fact, so we live in a large typical Brooklyn seven story building. And there's at least two other trans people on my floor, like my actual neighbors.
We share a wall which is awesome. And then I have a very good friend in the building who just transitioned a few years ago. He and I have gotten pretty close. I have a, another best friend who lives a few blocks away. A few years ago I actually started a community meetup.
I was, basically looking for [00:37:00] more trans mask father like friends that had kids, especially around my son's age. I think he was probably five at the time. He's eight. He'll be nine in May. So this is maybe three years ago. I was like, I really need more trans mask friends, to hang out with that understand, fatherhood and parenthood and, marriage and, the things that we can share specific things with, so I was like, I'm gonna start this group.
And my wife and I have belonged to this group called Brooklyn Queer Parents. Started by a friend of ours that connected Brooklyn queer parents. And they started this about probably 10 years ago at this point. So I posted on that group. I said, Hey, I wanna do this meetup, meet here at this time with your kid or without, you don't necessarily have to have kids, but if you wanna bring 'em, it's great. And we met up a few times and it turned out really great. I think eight or 10 people came to the first one and six or seven to the [00:38:00] second and the third.
It was a great opportunity to meet new people in the community. A lot of people were in the neighborhood or, kind of adjacent neighborhoods. And I ended up meeting a friend of mine who I'm now really great friends with the guy who lives a few blocks away and his family and, we hang out with their family and their kid all the time.
So it's really great. I feel very connected, I would say. And there's a lot of trans folks in our neighborhood. So yeah, I feel I'm fortunate to be very connected to this community and, even in my actual building, which is awesome.
Jackal: That's awesome. Hey, couple of things before I move on. One if there are trans masc parents listening in the New York area right now. Is it a good idea to still go to the Brooklyn Queer Parents Group to get connected with this group? Is this group still happening?
Anthony: Yeah, it is. It is happening. It started with I think 10 or 15 families and now it's 600 or something. The last time [00:39:00] I heard about it, it's huge.
It's run by a friend of mine and another person who I met.
It's up and running and it's a great resource. And initially it was more, Hey, let's do meetups.
The kids were babies. The kids are now, older, but there's still some, it's grown. So there's still a lot of different age range. Yeah it's a great resource.
Jackal: awesome. Thank you. So what are some milestones that you have in your life that you're proud of?
Anthony: First and foremost becoming a father. The best thing that's ever happened in my life. The thing that I'm most proud of by far being a husband, to my amazing wife transitioning is a huge milestone. I don't wanna say completed, but having come as far as I've come and to just be in this body now.
This mindset now is something I'm really proud of and happy about. Even still to this day, even though it's been, 14 years every single time that, [00:40:00] I put a shirt on and I don't have to worry about what's underneath the shirt, I'm just still so incredibly happy and relieved even, 14 years later.
Yeah, I think those are pretty much the big ones. Honestly I'm a family guy. My son was born extremely premature and spent almost a year in the hospital before he came home and has had a lot of developmental and medical, issues his whole life. So at that time I was laid off.
I used to work in the food business. I was a cheese monger and a butcher before that. And I got laid off my company, did me a favor and helped me out with that. 'cause they knew that I would be, at the hospital every day with them. And I actually haven't returned to work since that.
We didn't know it would last this long in terms of me not going back to work. But because of my son and because of our situation, I am able to devote, a hundred percent of my time to what he needs and getting him all [00:41:00] the resources that he needs in school and with the medical stuff and everything with the government, with the state, applying for all these programs for kids, it takes years and years to get approved for them, and it's so much work. So I'm able to do all that. My wife, goes to work every day and she can focus on that and I can focus on this. And we have a really good, division of labor. And I do all the house stuff, I cook, which I love.
I do everything. And I'm really good at it and I'm proud of it. So it's pretty sweet. It's a pretty sweet situation and it really allows for my son to, flourish as best as he can because I have the bandwidth.
Like I'm not having to come home at five and do all the things that I would have to do anyway, so I can be there when they come home and walk in the door. And I'm here and, dinner's ready and there's your bath and all this stuff. So it's pretty great. It's pretty awesome.
Jackal: Thank you so much. Hey, we're nearing the end of our questions. What would you like to say to newer trans and non-binary folk?
Anthony: Got a little bit of a [00:42:00] rough road ahead of you. You make your decisions based on what you need and what you're ready for. And I would say just, stand tall, stand proud. Rely on your community to help you. Especially if you don't have, family to support you, know that there are people out there that know what you are going through and what you have gone through.
And reach out for help because everyone needs it, even in the best circumstances. And, just stay strong. Stay strong, do what you have to do and take care of yourself. Yeah.
Jackal: So what do you think we should have asked that we didn't? What are your famous last words of wisdom?
Anthony: I don't know if I have it. You guys did a pretty, pretty thorough job. Yeah. I don't, I can't think of anything. No.
Jackal: Awesome. Okay,
Kai: I really wanna highlight how in different parts of your interview today, you've touched on the spirit of New York. The challenges in raising a family raising a son who [00:43:00] has, very specific needs and having, that be more than a full-time job,
And sharing, partnering, with your sweetie and figuring out how to make that work right in this
Anthony: Yeah.
Kai: And all the different systems involved, and just the way that you managed getting access to your care and coming out to folks and all that. And I really appreciate that. I think, the fact that you're surrounded by us is amazing and you're well connected. That's such a wonderful thing because we are really highlighting how important it is to have, we have this really unique bond, that we share. And I'm glad, I'm really glad that you have been on the show today and thank you so much.
Anthony: Thank you so much for having me. This has been, an amazing experience and listening to the podcast over these years. I love hearing everybody's stories and also catching onto the similarities. Like we all have, there's certain things that we all share.
And I think that's really powerful and important. And something that, you know, especially [00:44:00] newer like Jackal had asked about, what would you say to newer trans people or non-binary people. Community is powerful. Community is strength and community.
It's everything. And I think that's something that we can all just rely on and take comfort in. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you both for having me. It's been really great.
Jackal: Thank you.
Anthony: And thank you for what you do. You have both brought this to us and I've told other.
A friend of mine told me about this podcast and I've since told, at least five other people
Jackal: giving me goosebumps.
Anthony: no, it,
Kai: I know.
Anthony: it's, important and, I recognize, y'all don't do it for, the money or the prestige or anything like you're doing it for our community.
So thank you very much.
Kai: Thank you, Anthony. Thank you.
And we can't do it without you and without our other guests who have shared their stories. So thanks for really sticking your neck out and for sharing your history with us.
Thank you.
Shawn: Hey, this is [00:45:00] Sean Aaron, he, him, his. And I'm here to tell you about them boys podcast. I'm the host of them boys podcast. And as a black queer trans man, the podcast amplifies the voices of other trans men of color. As we share our transition stories, the podcast not only amplifies the voices of trans men of color, but it raises awareness and conversations around our lived experiences.
You can listen to the podcast by going to themboys. org forward slash podcast. That's D E M B O I S. org forward slash podcast. I hope to have you join us on the next episode.
Kai: So, Jackal, what did you think of our interview with Anthony today?
Jackal: I liked him. I mean, he rolled with it. We did this in two parts, right? You know that, but our [00:46:00] audience might not, because his wife was stuck in Manhattan, you know, in a car and stuff.
And yeah, so, uh. Him just kind of picking up where we left off two weeks, later. You know, not even remembering what was being said at the time. I really enjoyed his ability to story tell. I really enjoyed his dedication, as a parent and things like that. What about you?
Kai: I thought you would appreciate that a lot. Interestingly, he's part of our mentoring program and the first, zoom call we had together, he ended up being in transit and then he was driving. While on the call. So there's been a lot of car activity with Anthony, but his car had broken down or he'd gotten a flat that day, so he had to get it fixed like the day of the thing.
So he had to attend to that and then, yeah, he had to pick
Jackal: No, his wife did.
Kai: No, no, no. The day I, the, the mentoring day, so it's twice.
Jackal: when you,
Kai: things that's, you know,
Jackal: my goodness.
Kai: this, his car broken down. He took it to the shop and he had to go pick it up during the mentoring [00:47:00] thing and his wife broke down during our show the first time.
It's so funny. Really, really funny. So today we all, where we were assured that he had no car related activity happening while we were
Jackal: Car parked in the garage. The motto is, don't own a car in New York.
Kai: it is likely he does not have a garage in New York.
Jackal: Okay, fine.
Kai: Yes, yes, yes. So, yeah, he brought a lot of New York flavor and, his story about going to a very tourist area during a holiday season was reminiscent of, yes, it's definitely like something you'd typically avoid Times Square if you're local.
Yeah. But, it was a great, it seemed like a great idea at the time.
Jackal: Yeah, yeah. You know, it, it's funny 'cause it's like, I kind of thought it was gonna lead into a, you know, transphobic scary thing or something, and then it wasn't, it was just a, you know, like tourist trap, trans tourist trap New York thing, more than anything else. So I was kind of glad about that.
Kai: [00:48:00] Yeah, me too. I appreciated you know, our little signals that we have, our little like insider stuff. And so just seeing something related to trans on this unknown person's backpack in that big crowd and just saying, Hey fam, you know, we have these sweet moments and exchanges with each other, you know, a little wink wink, or hey, you know, and I think it's just so sweet, and that's one thing that I'll take away from his interview is just like, what an absolutely sweet guy.
And, really caring guy who is, you know, well supported. It's so clear how much his family loves him and, you know, it doesn't matter where you fall politically you're taking care of each other in his family. 'cause he mentioned different political views in his family, but I really appreciate how he started a group. He started a meetup group. He's like, I need more trans people in my life, or trans men in my life. And living his life. He's got a full life. And you know, I'm so glad he wanted to be a part of our show and
Jackal: Yeah, me too.
Kai: I can't believe he listened to it for a couple years.
We've been doing this for a little minute, Jackal.
Jackal: [00:49:00] 2021
Kai: 2021, we're coming up on Halloween. It's gonna be our four year. Right. That's amazing. So anyway, we couldn't do it without guests. And we really wanna thank Anthony for being on the show today.
Jackal: Yeah. Thank you.
Kai: Hey, Kai here. Jackal and I are excited to offer a new members section on our webpage. As a member, you'll get ad free episodes with bonus material like transmasculine history. Here's a teaser. Let's get started with famed African American gospel singer Wilmer Broadnax, the frontman for his own quartet called Little Axe and the Golden Echoes.
I should here mention that Little Axe was his nickname. He was a small guy, especially compared to his brother William, who went by the nickname Big Axe. Go to our website and sign up to become a member today.
Jackal: Now it's time for Transponder.
Today's trans joy segment is a shout out to trans joy jam. Yeah, it's over, but man, what a cool thing. Trans joy jam 2025 was [00:50:00] a game jam about creating and shaping a brighter future. Without a vision for a better future, we can't readily create one. And that's what this jam was all about. Go check out their website to see their 46 entries. It's at itch. io slash jam slash trans. Dash joy dash jam dash 2025.
That's I T C H dot I O slash jam slash trans dash joy dash jam dash 2025. Please go check it out. There's some really fun things in there. Congratulations. Trans joy, jam, crystal game works. Stella at. Make vision novels. Thank you so much for hosting this event.
If you have trans joy that you would like us to share on our Instagram, please contact our Instagram [00:51:00] page at Transmasculine Podcast. We enjoy your comments and look forward to hearing from you. Lastly, this show would be nothing without our guests who share their insight Expertise and heartfelt stories.
We absolutely adore you and are forever grateful to you.
Kai: Good job today,
Jackal: Jackal.
Good job to you, Kai.
Kai: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. Stealth tries to capture stories of those who transitioned before. the year 2000. We recognize that language has its limitations. The words we use to describe ourselves and our community evolve over time and will not represent everyone's experience.
We also want you to know that the health and well being of our community is our number one priority.
Jackal: In fact, we want to give a shout out to parents who are supporting their gender non conforming kids. Supporting your child in the development and expression of their identity is not child abuse. We support you and love you for supporting your kids.
We fully anticipate that people and groups will express positivity and negativity in response [00:52:00] to our stories. We're prepared to deal with this, and as you know, thrilled to be one small part of our community.
Kai: We offer links to health and safety resources on our website. We monitor our social media platforms, we respond to feedback from our audience, and we will be accountable when we screw up.
Jackal: We want you to know that we are just two guys doing this in our spare time. We are getting better, but we are still rookies and still two old farts to boot. So we ask that you still be patient with us as we learn the ropes and find our way. The opinions expressed on our podcast are our own and those of our guests.
We do not represent any outside
Kai: entity. Remember, if you're interested in sharing your story, we would love to hear from you. If you're interested in volunteering, please let us know your feedback and support are essential to our show success. Help us get the word out about our podcast. Tell your friends, share on social media and rate us on your favorite streaming platform.
You can find us on Instagram, trans masking podcast on [00:53:00] X, formerly Twitter. At podcast stealth on YouTube stealth, the trans masculine podcast, and be sure to check out our website, trans masculine podcast. com.
Jackal: Thank you for joining us. Until next time.